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britCpower
recumbent enthusiast

USA
249 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2012 :  16:31:36  Show Profile  Visit britCpower's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Would the WRRA consider adding 10 mile TT's to the list of records ?
It is a very common racing distance across the world and the there are plenty of events at these distances.

Similarily the 25 Mile (40K TT) is pretty common.


my blog
http://britcpower.wordpress.com/

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
2475 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2012 :  16:47:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There is likely too much variation in courses to establish a true record. Maybe. It would be great if someone kept track. I believe Mr Costin's 51 something at the Double Bong is likely the best 40k. My 22:13 for ten miles is solid, but there are likely many faster. Larry and Randy are faster at Fiesta Island, but that is some weird distance(longer than 10 miles). To be a legit record, the course distance has to be certified, for starters.
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britCpower
recumbent enthusiast

USA
249 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2012 :  17:16:36  Show Profile  Visit britCpower's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I know the courses get certified in the UK but probably not in other parts of the world. I suppose the certifying of courses would become a nightmare for the US. To be honest I had personal issue with the way courses were certified in the UK too. I was involved in a legal battle with the RTTC over a supposed short course that invalidated a junior record. At the time I was working in the field of measurement uncertainty with the NPL and was providing data to the person who lost the record.
Only way to be really sure is make the course longer than the required distance. The study I performed at showed that the existing practise at the time of using a bicycle with calibrated odometer was highly flawed.
I dread to think what the uncertainty is on the actual length of a 100 mile record.

my blog
http://britcpower.wordpress.com/

Edited by - britCpower on 04/12/2012 17:17:09
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3466 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2012 :  14:37:43  Show Profile  Visit Upright Mike's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I would vote YES! if I were on the committee!
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delcrossv
recumbent guru

Vanuatu
636 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  07:29:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There is already a 20k (12.4 mi) TT at Bong. Isn't that the most common shorter distance?
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Larry Lem
human power expert

South Sandwich Islands
2303 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  10:07:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Fiesta Island and Piru run 20km and 40km TTs. I simply consider the fastest times at each as course records. (If only such records were kept at Piru...). Fast times easily stand out by themselves.

I have a new project that I really want to build to allow us average power, middle-age folk to attempt to set these records. If only this Battle Mountain event would die, I'd have time to work on it.

Larry Lem
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Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
2475 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  11:48:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What are the best 40k times from those events or any others on the West coast?
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britCpower
recumbent enthusiast

USA
249 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  12:27:28  Show Profile  Visit britCpower's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think I hold the best time for a recumbent on the Putah Creek 40k course with 57m28s

http://britcpower.wordpress.com/2011/08/18/putah-creek-40k-bacchetta-corsa/

I believe they also allowed recumbents on the State 40K championships in 2011 but I cant find the results. The CA/NV course is at altitide and very fast.



my blog
http://britcpower.wordpress.com/
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3466 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  14:50:56  Show Profile  Visit Upright Mike's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Tim Brummer did 52:22 - 28.5 mph average on a Lightning U-2 at Moriarity, New Mexico, the high-altitude (6200 foot) site of most of the national 40K records. He was first in the Age 40-45 age group.
http://www.lightningbikes.com/racing/2005-u2-uscf.html

I'd love to go to Moriarity one day for their record challenge every Labor Day weekend in September. But like Larry says, if that Battle Mountain event also in September would just die, (never!) I'd have time to race in Moriarity. ha ha ha. I think it would be good to go to New Mexico for the week before BM, do the race, acclimitize to altitude then go to BM. But if only I could get about three weeks off work to allow time to drive, etc.

my personal best 40K would be a computed 53 min 50 sec during a self-timed one hour hour at 27.7 mph average on a M1 lowracer. I hope to make that official in June at the Michigan State champs or in August at Speedbiker Thom's 40K recumbent challenge race in Ohio.

Edited by - Upright Mike on 04/19/2012 15:01:55
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Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
2475 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  15:52:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mike, start a list! Race confirmable times only, at 40k tts(sorry Mike). No fairings (WRRA Stock definition). 57:28 is solid. Say when and where. I went 56:52 at the Aug 2010 Colavita/Zipp TT. I am sure Sean, Alan, and Warren have gone way faster. I think the year Brummer did Moriarity, Matt Weaver also rode. Seems like he was on a super, duper fast time, but then had mechanical issues. I would like to see a list for 20k and maybe 10 miles(22:13 for me @ BSTT in 2009).

Disclaimer: I know course distances vary. This is just for fun.
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sean costin
human power supergeek

Lesotho
1978 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  18:56:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I say this belongs on a fastest time trials list and sort them by course. Conditions and credibility of times/distances are too variable to call these WRRA records. However I would not have a problem with posting it along with the WRRA records page. We could pop in a few disclaimers that point the finger at Mike Mowett and to the best of our knowlege... it's good to go.

Mike, are you up for it? It would be on you to collect the data.

Sean
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Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
2475 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  19:35:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dang it! I saw Sean's post and hoped to see his best time. I found a 52:42 for him, but I am pretty sure he did a 51:?? that time he beat Francis Manfreid.
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3466 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2012 :  02:44:53  Show Profile  Visit Upright Mike's Homepage  Reply with Quote
During one of my past lives, when I was "bored", I did in fact make up a list of Fastest 40K times for Recumbents...

Double Bong 40K Best Results
52 min 27 sec = 28.43 mph, Sean Costin, 2008, 1st place recumbents
(52:34 for Francis Manfred at this same event, so Sean beat him, but did not go 51 something)

52 min 42.9 sec = 28.29 mph, Sean Costin, 2011, 1st place recumbents (Tyger Johnson beat him by a half-second with his faired F40)
(49 min 37.4 sec = 30.05 mph for Jeff Otto at this same event for a possible course record)

53 min, 34 sec = 27.84 mph, Alan A, 2010, 1st place recumbents
55 min, 05 sec = 27.07 mph, R Springer, 2010, 2nd place recumbents
(50:22 for Reid Mumford at this same event)

53 min, 50 sec = 27.70 mph, Alan A, 2005, 1st place recumbents

Edited by - Upright Mike on 04/20/2012 03:11:52
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3466 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2012 :  02:48:44  Show Profile  Visit Upright Mike's Homepage  Reply with Quote
old posting from Warren on BROL...
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/archive/index.php/t-21697.html
2006 35K Garden Prairie
The Garden Prairie, IL 35K was a fun race (in retrospect), and I left everything I had on the course. The last mile or so was slightly downhill, so we all blasted by the finish line at 30+ MPH. Weather was cool and overcast, but the air was THICK, almost foggy. The course wasn't hilly, but sloped gradually up or down depending on which direction you were from the closest stream, and there were a couple of highway overpasses.

Fastest roadie did a 42.15
NoCom2 Alan did a 44:25, about 5th fastest
NME Sean did a 44:37
NoCom1 Warren did a 45:20
Bacchetta Bob signed up but didn't show.

-Warren.

Edited by - Upright Mike on 04/20/2012 02:53:41
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3466 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2012 :  02:51:37  Show Profile  Visit Upright Mike's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Picts: http://www.veloliner.com/iowaTT06/

found this on the same thread above
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/archive/index.php/t-21697.html
Iowa State 40K Championships 2006
-old posting by Dennis....
Did we sweep the field? No, too many fast roadies over here. Lots of times under 56 minutes.

Dave Balfour finished in 55:49(I think?CRS) in his miniliner
Rick Gritters finished in 55:26 on his FWD
Dennis Grelk finished in 54:30 on Rick's 16/20 RWD

Fast time was Paul Deninger with a 52:somthing(more CRS)

Slightly foggy with a mild tail wind on the way out, picking up to a rather stout little headwind on the way back.

Edited by - Upright Mike on 04/20/2012 03:00:13
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3466 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2012 :  03:05:23  Show Profile  Visit Upright Mike's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Fiesta Island Record
Larry - is this in a streamliner?
http://www.fiestaisland.com/fiestatt/?q=records
Fastest Recumbent (20k)Eric Hollenbeck 23:05 = 32.30 mph
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Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
2475 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2012 :  06:05:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's what I was looking for! Lots of runs in the 52-55 minute range. We don't need no stinkin' fairings(yes we do, but that's different). But, who is R Springer? F-40 pilot? As all these riders are still competitive, I would love to see everyone at my event.
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randy
recumbent guru

721 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2012 :  06:45:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Upright Mike

Fiesta Island Record
Larry - is this in a streamliner?
http://www.fiestaisland.com/fiestatt/?q=records
Fastest Recumbent (20k)Eric Hollenbeck 23:05 = 32.30 mph



Yes, it was a streamliner.
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n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2012 :  07:01:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Fastest 40K I did was 52:39 in '09 at Garden Prairie
http://www.ambikerace.com/2009/Results/MATTS%20Finale2009%20results.pdf

I raced with the extra long NoCom which was too big for my body size. Sold it to Tim Hicks.
Looking forward to racing this course in Sept with a dialed in NoCom that actually fits my size.
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Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
2475 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2012 :  07:04:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Alan, it looks like you are getting you bike dialed in. What about your body?
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n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2012 :  07:22:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Need about a month of riding to be in shape for a time trial.

This week I discovered the benefit of a large chainring combined with large cassette cogs.
Plan to get the bike set up with a 60T chainring and 13/28 10 speed cassette. Have to make a new bolt on derailleur post to do it. A 63T and 14/32 wil be best.


quote:
Originally posted by Speedbiker

Alan, it looks like you are getting you bike dialed in. What about your body?


Edited by - n/a on 04/20/2012 07:25:52
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sean costin
human power supergeek

Lesotho
1978 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  19:15:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Alan,
Single Bong on 5/6. Let's see how that fairing works.

Sean
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n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  20:56:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sean,
No need to use the fairing at present. Probably by mid summer. Hope to see you at the Single B on 5/6.


quote:
Originally posted by sean costin

Alan,
Single Bong on 5/6. Let's see how that fairing works.

Sean

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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3466 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  05:01:51  Show Profile  Visit Upright Mike's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I just rememembered yesterday that we recorded Lap Data at the 2009 Ford Speed Challenge during the Mass Start One Hour Time Trial. Each lap at the Ford track was nearly exactly 5 miles (inside of lane 1 distance used during this TT = 4.98517 miles). We have the surveyed information which could make it better than some unsurveyed open road courses. It was nearly perfectly flat all the way around (oK i heard 8 inches elevation change, that's inches not feet), and just repaved. It was windy this day, and did rain hard that afternoon, but not during the race. Alan did not do his best TT, as he was riding his new bike from John, and had not done all of the adjustments he's done since then! John finished 3rd in this One-Hour event. Sean rode the 4th fastest stock one-hour (28.612 miles/46.047 km) ever in this event which is the fastest stock One Hour on an outdoor paved track. All the faster marks are on indoor wooden velodromes. Below are his likely WRRA records. This data was recorded by the HPRA timing system. We had 31 people on the huge track including streamliners, won overall by Rick Gritters in his streamliner with a 39.5 mph average, Speedbiker Thom did a 36.25 mph average for second following a spill at the start.

For the complete results: http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/fordchallenge2009/results.htm
Go to Link: Mike Mowett's AMB data detail spreadsheet
Click Saturday One Hour tab

Here's are the top two finishers in Stock
Sean Costin, NoCom
2-lap (approx 10-mile) 20:27.976 29.230 mph 47.041 kph
5-lap (approx 25-mile) 52:11.028 28.659 mph 46.123 kph

Alan Ariail, M1 lowracer
2-lap (approx 10-mile) 22:22.163 26.473 mph 43.039 kph
5-lap (approx 25-mile) 56:11.344 26.616 mph 42.835 kph

I could compute the time based on their average speeds if it were exactly 10.000 miles, 25.000 miles, etc, if anyone is interested. This might be off by a second or two!

Edited by - Upright Mike on 04/26/2012 05:41:04
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n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  06:49:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mike,
My front tire was rubbing the frame from the boom flexing under pedal force. Wish I had raced that course with the NoCom I have now. There is no boom flex at present. Not trying to be nasty. Just stating a fact for that point in time.

I wish I had never sold my 1st NoCom to Sean. I should have stayed with that bike design but making mistakes is part of the learning experience of life.




quote:
Originally posted by Upright Mike

I just rememembered yesterday that we recorded Lap Data at the 2009 Ford Speed Challenge during the Mass Start One Hour Time Trial. Each lap at the Ford track was nearly exactly 5 miles (inside of lane 1 distance used during this TT = 4.98517 miles). We have the surveyed information which could make it better than some unsurveyed open road courses. It was nearly perfectly flat all the way around (oK i heard 8 inches elevation change, that's inches not feet), and just repaved. It was windy this day, and did rain hard that afternoon, but not during the race. Alan did not do his best TT, as he was riding his new bike from John, and had not done all of the adjustments he's done since then! John finished 3rd in this One-Hour event. Sean rode the 4th fastest stock one-hour (28.612 miles/46.047 km) ever in this event which is the fastest stock One Hour on an outdoor paved track. All the faster marks are on indoor wooden velodromes. Below are his likely WRRA records. This data was recorded by the HPRA timing system. We had 31 people on the huge track including streamliners, won overall by Rick Gritters in his streamliner with a 39.5 mph average, Speedbiker Thom did a 36.25 mph average for second following a spill at the start.

For the complete results: http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/fordchallenge2009/results.htm
Go to Link: Mike Mowett's AMB data detail spreadsheet
Click Saturday One Hour tab

Here's are the top two finishers in Stock
Sean Costin, NoCom
2-lap (approx 10-mile) 20:27.976 29.230 mph 47.041 kph
5-lap (approx 25-mile) 52:11.028 28.659 mph 46.123 kph

Alan Ariail, M1 lowracer
2-lap (approx 10-mile) 22:22.163 26.473 mph 43.039 kph
5-lap (approx 25-mile) 56:11.344 26.616 mph 42.835 kph

I could compute the time based on their average speeds if it were exactly 10.000 miles, 25.000 miles, etc, if anyone is interested. This might be off by a second or two!

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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3466 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  07:26:11  Show Profile  Visit Upright Mike's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Alan, agreed, when you get everything dialed in right, you are a great TT rider. Hope to see you later this summer at the races.
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