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LunaticFringe
recumbent enthusiast

USA
366 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2011 :  08:10:15  Show Profile  Visit LunaticFringe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Under construction the first week in April...



Based upon the HP Velotechnik Speedmachine: http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/produkte/spm/index_e.html

Jeff in Tucson

warren
human power expert

USA
4902 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2011 :  09:15:05  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Cool!
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stix
New Member

Australia
95 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2011 :  17:10:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jeff,
great to see you working on a 2-wheel dual suspended streetliner. I have enjoyed reading your write up of your velo build.

I ride a Lightning F-40 built around an R-84 frame to make what I think is the best commercially available dual suspended streetliner.

The suspension on this bikes really helps on city streets. Lightning's mesh seat also helps soak up bumps. Brisbane is not a very windy city and though the wind can make rides interesting at times it is not a great problem on the F-40.

1. Did you consider building around an R-84 rather than the speed machine?

2. Have you considered a more rounded nose?

Stix

Lightning F-40 built around R-84 frame.
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LunaticFringe
recumbent enthusiast

USA
366 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2011 :  09:54:19  Show Profile  Visit LunaticFringe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stix

<big snip>

1. Did you consider building around an R-84 rather than the speed machine?

2. Have you considered a more rounded nose?

Stix

Lightning F-40 built around R-84 frame.



Your ride sounds awesome!

I have ridden the Speedmachine (SM) once before and really like it. I'm sure the R-84 is also nice, but I'm happy with the price and ride of the SM.

I have an old Turner SWB that I converted over to being fully suspended in the 1990s and really liked riding it for years, but it is retired now and not up to the task at hand.

Here's the other part of the news... the fairing mold, for the most part ALREADY EXISTS. The mold used to make the Critical Power 24 hour record holding bike is on its way to me. The record holder himself, Greg Kolodziejzyk, has been very helpful by allowing me to pull a shell from his mold. I'll modify that into the Streetliner pictured.

I'm positive that my sketch is not correct in its proportions, but it is close enough to begin the planning. If I was going to use an M5 to make the Streetliner, like Greg did, I'd keep the entire shape. I think that the Speedmachine's shorter wheelbase and greater height may justify chopping off the tail a bit to reduce the affect of side-winds and reduce the weight. We'll see!

This is a link to Greg's Streetliner page: http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/2006/06/13/introducing-the-critical-power-streetliner-an-everyday-driver-streetable-streamliner/

I'll take delivery of the fairing mold approximately March 26th in Tucson, Arizona. I have hired Greg's helper to personally drive the mold down from Calgary (1700 miles of driving).

For sure, I'll have to widen the fairing a bit to accommodate my shoulder width, but that work is nothing compared to sculpting a successful shape from scratch for myself.

I have 2 race canopies from Garrie. I'll use one to mount behind my head to have the aero shape and still be able to see rearward with my eyeglass mounted mirror.

The construction of this fairing should go rather quickly, thanks to Greg K!

Jeff in Tucson

Edited by - LunaticFringe on 02/09/2011 10:20:44
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stix
New Member

Australia
95 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2011 :  16:40:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good luck with the build, it sounds great.

Stix

Lightning F-40 built around R-84 frame.
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LunaticFringe
recumbent enthusiast

USA
366 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2011 :  07:29:54  Show Profile  Visit LunaticFringe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Photo of mold in Canada, prior to its road-trip:



Jeff in Tucson
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3463 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2011 :  11:28:51  Show Profile  Visit Upright Mike's Homepage  Reply with Quote
If the mold was laid down, I bet it would make a nice sled in all that snow!
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LunaticFringe
recumbent enthusiast

USA
366 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2011 :  12:17:24  Show Profile  Visit LunaticFringe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Upright Mike

If the mold was laid down, I bet it would make a nice sled in all that snow!



I agree!

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mhelander
recumbent enthusiast

Finland
352 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2011 :  14:19:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have to confess, this is getting interesting... If no NoCom for me, why not do fairings to my M5.

Greg's version looks really slick but design has some weak points tho, like closing foot openings and having controlled interior venting.

What about doing male plugs and then zotefoam method ? Like this:
http://www.recumbents.com/mars/pages/proj/tetz/manual/1mold.html



Likely 1st do some tail fairing to exorcise technique and have it for other purposes, then follow with full plug.

John was able to do whole deal for trike in just 7 lbs / 3 kg which is awesome ! Also no need for male/female plugs, painting and all. And if goes down or crashes, gives some protection, doesn't crack to sticky pieces.

This is good for practice runs using zotefoam, and when shape is perfected maybe then go the long way and do fairing from CF...

Cheers,
-Mika
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LunaticFringe
recumbent enthusiast

USA
366 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2011 :  14:25:11  Show Profile  Visit LunaticFringe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yep, the Zote-Foam is pretty cool.

I have a lot of fiberglass experience, so I'll stick with it.

I asked for pricing on a bike that I finally found a picture for, the Steintrikes brand Speedster FS. It is lower than the Speedmachine, but also has full suspension. I'm also a BIG FAN of HCS (Hub center steering) used on recumbent motorcycles. Hmmm... this little rascal is pretty interesting:



Jeff in Tucson

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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3463 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2011 :  17:19:40  Show Profile  Visit Upright Mike's Homepage  Reply with Quote
My good buddy Don is looking into putting a full fairing (the Wisil Missle) around my Optima Cheetah 26" rear swing arm / 406 front head shock full suspension frame. Shhhh - I just gave away a secret! We are both looking to show up next year on rides with full suspension streamliners, and maybe set some course records. I got dual 451 wheels with Pantour hub suspension on my Norus streamliner. The previous owner Rob, installed these. He said a huge difference in being able to stick corners on road courses. I have to say my full suspension 60 lb streamliner rides better than my 22 lb unsuspended Challenge Fujin.
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LunaticFringe
recumbent enthusiast

USA
366 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2011 :  17:39:26  Show Profile  Visit LunaticFringe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Very cool! Good to hear real world confirmation about the ride =)

Jeff in Tucson
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Jeff Wills
human power supergeek

USA
1209 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2011 :  19:56:10  Show Profile  Visit Jeff Wills's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Upright Mike

My good buddy Don is looking into putting a full fairing (the Wisil Missle) around my Optima Cheetah 26" rear swing arm / 406 front head shock full suspension frame. Shhhh - I just gave away a secret! We are both looking to show up next year on rides with full suspension streamliners, and maybe set some course records. I got dual 451 wheels with Pantour hub suspension on my Norus streamliner. The previous owner Rob, installed these. He said a huge difference in being able to stick corners on road courses. I have to say my full suspension 60 lb streamliner rides better than my 22 lb unsuspended Challenge Fujin.



Hmmm... the Cuda-W-2 streamliner that I bought from Warren has full suspension: http://www.fleettrikes.com/cuda%20w.htm . I'm figuring out the drivetrain now... the chain wouldn't stay on and wouldn't clear the front wheel with a reasonable chainring. Once it's rideable again I'll have a better idea of what's going to stay and what's not.

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Jeff Wills
All my bikes:
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LunaticFringe
recumbent enthusiast

USA
366 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2011 :  07:44:12  Show Profile  Visit LunaticFringe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
That's a cool write-up, Jeff. I really like that bike. I'm wide and short, so my Streetliner will be a bit more stubby by comparison.

I have been thinking about doing an outrigger system for my LunaticFringe Streetliner even though I'll have places for my feet to come out the bottom. If I do it, the outrigger system will be used for being able to stabilize the machine in either direction while going up one of the super-steep mountains around here. I could make the outriggers removable.

Friends have an awesome waterjet cutting machine. I could cut a Y shaped piece of aluminum, approximately 3/4" thick and designed with webbing/holes for a light weight, then have it pivot down from the main tube underneath the seat. That could be handy! It also might make taking off from an intersection more fun if I've been surrounded by roadies while waiting for the green light.

Jeff in Tucson
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LunaticFringe
recumbent enthusiast

USA
366 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2011 :  07:48:40  Show Profile  Visit LunaticFringe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LunaticFringe

<snip>I'm also a BIG FAN of HCS (Hub center steering) used on recumbent motorcycles. <snip>


Yeah, I know this thing doesn't have HSC, but it has a lot of funk factor, which I like!

Jeff in Tucson
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Jeff Wills
human power supergeek

USA
1209 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2011 :  17:22:34  Show Profile  Visit Jeff Wills's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LunaticFringe

That's a cool write-up, Jeff. I really like that bike. I'm wide and short, so my Streetliner will be a bit more stubby by comparison.

Jeff in Tucson



Well... that's the Cuda's life before it wandered into my garage. I'm giving it a major makeover, including splitting the shell and widening it 2". My shoulders wouldn't fit inside.

Making progress... slowly but Shirley.

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Jeff Wills
All my bikes:
http://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/Gallery/index.html
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Dreamer
recumbent guru

USA
607 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2011 :  18:41:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you want to write about Shirley's butt please start a separate thread.
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stix
New Member

Australia
95 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2011 :  19:42:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jeff,
from my experience with the F-40 I haven't found outriggers necessary. I have ridden up some very steep hills in it. The key for me is to have a low enough gear and then it is quite straight forward to balance even at at 7 or 8 km/h. Outriggers would add a lot of complexity to your build.

Stix

Lightning F-40 built around R-84 frame.
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LunaticFringe
recumbent enthusiast

USA
366 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2011 :  22:02:33  Show Profile  Visit LunaticFringe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stix

<snip> Outriggers would add a lot of complexity to your build.

Stix

Lightning F-40 built around R-84 frame.



Yeah. That's probably a good idea to back-burner that idea.

Jeff
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3463 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2011 :  06:14:57  Show Profile  Visit Upright Mike's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Jeff, I can't wait to see what yours will look like when done. It will have a very aero shape! I love street rideable bikes like the F40. However I think a more pointed nose is the way to go. I wish someone would mass produce some pointed nose fairings.

The M5 with sandwich fairing is also fast, but it's supposedly hard to see over the nose.

Jeff W - I like seeing the picts of what Todd Marley and Lonnie Morse have done with their Varna streamliners over at the Northwest events. Aren't they Challenge Jester frames inside? They look practical, light and fast. Didn't they widen the Varna shell a bit?

This is Richard Myer's practical street-liner, the Challenge Jester Chiquita Banana. He told me he was using short cranks (correction: 155 mm), like less than 140 mm, and had the stock Jester seat tilted way up to see over the nose. It looks practical and fast.

Note: photo from Cattrike photos at 2010 Florida challenge, since I couldn't link to their photo on Flicker, i downloaded it and reposted on my Photobucket

Another pointed nose, fast lightweight street-able streamliner is Joe K's Flying Diseased Cucumber (what is it with the fruit and vegetable themes going on here?) - I guess look to nature for fairing shapes!

Edited by - Upright Mike on 02/15/2011 05:46:45
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Richard Myers
recumbent enthusiast

USA
196 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2011 :  06:53:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mike
The cranks on the Chiquita Banana are 155 mm mounted on 102mm BB with the cleats set to the outside of the shoes. This is the same setup I use on Gee Bee Moby Blue.

Richard Myers
Ohio
http://tinyurl.com/3445gr
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LunaticFringe
recumbent enthusiast

USA
366 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2011 :  07:19:04  Show Profile  Visit LunaticFringe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Those are great pics! The 2 bikes are both interesting! I remember seeing Joe take off during the 2003 WHPSC sprints at the airport. He spun his front tire! His junkyard fashion sense and willingness to ride through trash cans on video works for him.

The Banana looks nice & light. I've had a set of 140mm cranks previously, but would rather mash some 180mm. Less than 140mm is REALLY short! Ah, I see that Richard says 155mm.

I still haven't heard from the Steintrikes folks yet, but my research indicates approx. $2900 for the Speedster FS. The Speedmachine is around $800 more.

Has anyone on here ridden the Speedster FS?

Jeff in Tucson
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Jeff Wills
human power supergeek

USA
1209 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2011 :  12:46:00  Show Profile  Visit Jeff Wills's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Upright Mike


Jeff W - I like seeing the picts of what Todd Marley and Lonnie Morse have done with their Varna streamliners over at the Northwest events. Aren't they Challenge Jester frames inside? They look practical, light and fast. Didn't they widen the Varna shell a bit?




Todd's has a modified Challenge Jester inside, Lonnie's is a Zephyr lowracer. As far as I know neither of them widened the shell so they could fit inside, but then they're both 6 to 8" shorter than me.

FWIW: the original chassis that Lonnie built for the Varna is being reborn as a leaning trike: http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?p=579007

Yeah, I want to get out and chase these guys around:


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Jeff Wills
All my bikes:
http://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/Gallery/index.html
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LunaticFringe
recumbent enthusiast

USA
366 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2011 :  08:16:02  Show Profile  Visit LunaticFringe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello Jeff,

Thanks for the link to the tilter. I don't go to the BROL web site. I was a sponsor there that got banned for 'thinking I was above the law' (Bryan's exact words). Of course, thinking that you are above the law is not a bannable offense, as listed in the bylaws.

What was my horrific crime? I have a 49cc motor on one of my velos and our local law says that up to 48cc are allowed. I consider the 49cc Honda engine to be a '48cc class' engine. Holy Mother of God, that got me banned by Bryan (and I never got a refund for my sponsor fees).

In my opinion, Bryan is petty, unstable, and has low integrity.

Jeff in Tucson
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LunaticFringe
recumbent enthusiast

USA
366 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2011 :  10:58:09  Show Profile  Visit LunaticFringe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
OK, now the fully suspended Fujin is starting to look REALLY interesting as the Streetliner's bike. Now, to see if I can find a used one for sale. Hmmm...

Jeff in Tucson
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LunaticFringe
recumbent enthusiast

USA
366 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2011 :  14:24:59  Show Profile  Visit LunaticFringe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
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